The most important thing I learned was the blasé nature with which truth is treated. I think this is important for two reasons. We need to try to establish a basis for its absoluteness, but do so in a manner that doesn’t destroy truth’s ‘reputation’ any further. Truth is essential to establish faith/trust that God has a steadfast (unwavering) love for humanity. Do we demonstrate steadfast faithfulness in that claim back toward God? Show faith in His claims (Heb.11:1-3)? Another claim He has made is that He has begun leading justice to victory through Jesus (Mt.12:20) and that the nations can place their hope in what He has begun. Do we demonstrate that? Sometimes our attitude (lives) toward truth, and our exclusive claim on it, sees us use truth in unhelpful ways; portraying it subjectively). We sometimes use bully-boy, uncaring, he who shouts loudest wins tactics to get our message across. These tactics do not portray the absolute truth claims we profess and were not the methods of our master (Mt.12:19). Truth is the weapon, sharper than any double-edged sword (Heb.4:12) it does not require the strength of our arm or persona for its desired effect; contrarily it just requires the careful, precise, gentle hand of the surgeon to cut away the impediments of an uncircumcised heart. If wielded with strength, like the Pharisees did, it produces the wrong kind of justice (Mt.12:7). We know that Jesus has the power to change the world (2 Cor.10:1) and demolish the strongholds of the world; we should conduct our business the same way he does (2 Cor.10:2-3). For in ‘weakness’ (dependence) is our real strength (Mt.12:21). Hope is our truth, and to the world it appears subjective. It cannot be to us, so we must not make it appear so by resorting to tactics which demonstrate our lack of trust in His tactics/truth claims (for that demonstrates we also profess truth as subjective – necessary only when it suits us).
Thanks for a thoughtful response to this question. When reading your response, Isa.42:1-4 came to mind: "he will not cry or lift up his voice or make it heard in the street; a bruised reed he will not break, and a dimly burning wick he will not quench..." Jesus' tactics were to out-shout his detractors nor did her resort to bullying. He spoke truth and was gentle and caring toward others (bruised people). Thanks.
The most significant thing I've learned was that, in postmodernism everything is subjective and relative. There is no such thing as absolute truth. It is true for me but not for others. As I understood it, there is integration of faith and reason in postmodernism –that is they are not mutually exclusive, but they seek to explain the same answer in different ways.
Postmodernism is more open to spirituality and supernatural realities. Here, there is the difficulty of objectivity –we read, discuss and see things from the perspective of our own background and understanding.
I found what you said about there being an integration of faith and reason in Postmodernism interesting Dea. And the more I think about it, the more I wonder whether that is the case. I find one of the fascinating, yet equally disturbing facets of western culture, to be ‘open-mindedness.’ I think it is encouraging that many say they are, but when talking to people proclaiming the status, more often than not, I find it to be an excuse to not take the time to work through the reasoning behind whatever they do have faith in. Therefore, rather, they appear to have a lack of reasoning in faith than a blend). What I find helpful about their claims of ‘open-mindedness’ is, that they become advantageous for us to be able to stay in conversation with them (particularly if we get accused of being closed-minded). So long as we maintain a respectful and loving attitude, we have amazing opportunities to share the reason for the hope we have under Jesus’ Lordship (1 Pt. 3:15-16), which becomes quite easy to do by way of reason. Other than to make themselves feel better, most non-believing postmoderns appear to lack a reason for anything they do. Reason gives us, and can give them hope and purpose. We know this can only be in Christ, they don’t, yet.
The upside of "everything is relative" is that people will give you permission to speak and to share "your truth." At least God is put back on the table and the claims of Christianity are valued (maybe not as a metanarrative) but valued nonetheless. And when you speak a good word for Jesus, some will lesson and become followers. Thanks.
A lot of times, I am bothered at the thought of how close-minded people can be (and this is also because of my selfish presumption and ignorance). But I am comforted by John 8:32 when Jesus spoke to the Jews, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." God's truth sets people free. And it transcends time. Our responsibility is to ditch our personal fear, whether of rejection or being different, and to continue communicating the truth in the ways we are best equipped with. We never know who is ready to receive the Gospel. :)
It is really hard to argue with someone who doesn't believe there is absolute truth because if they stand by that than anything you say about the truths they believe they will counter with the "its true for you but not for me". It poses some difficulty, but also because people are open then it makes things a bit easier. The beautiful thing is God can work through anyone and whether or not the gospel doesn't hit them immediately because of their postmodern view.
the postmodernism claims to be neutral , unbiased or rational; and "raises important questions regarding genuine human limitations or bias and the problematic position that one should only believe what is absolutely certain." These views are good for Christians and could help us to strength our faith with God. We need to be humble and unbiased. As a human, we all have bias, which it's against Jesus' teaching. We need to self-control, and try to be humble in everything.
As much as we would like, we can't be unbiased but we can, as you say, be humble in everything. We speak what we believe to be true in a spirit of humility. Thanks.
To be honest, my understanding of postmodernism is as vague as postmodernism itself. But I think postmodernism is the time when everyone gets a chance to say or think whatever they want. Postmodernism rose out of the ash of the reasoning age - of totalitarianism, Nazism, or Marxism. Evidently, these metanarratives failed. And now people are making sure that we do not repeat the history again by bringing people to the same level. Every person gets the same chance. Every religion can speak out. But what saddens me is that no one is willing to listen. Postmodernism is almost like "each to their own" kinda idea. We spit words into the middle of the room with everyone mingling around. But no one takes it. No one ponders on it.
It poses a challenge because the Gospel is also a metanarrative. It is the story that needs to be told. But I have been thinking about how to tell this story in the most effective way. One thing I have made peace with, as Peter said earlier, we cannot just keep shouting Gospel into people's ears. We must be different. It seems that actions speak louder than words these days. So as a way of telling the story or the plan of salvation, we have to live out our faith in the same way Jesus did - to get real with the nitty-gritty of life. To look for ways to be involved with people. To be quick to see and respond to their needs. At the same time, to make Christ known through our commitment and faithfulness to Him.
Good points, Minkster. I think you are right in saying that in our postmodern world all we do is "spit words into the middle of the room" but no one ponders on it. I suppose this is one of the challenges of postmodernism: to get others to really and deeply listen to us. "Everyone is right" attitude makes us all more shallow and lazy in our thinking. I suppose "discernment" is a lost value in today's postmodern world because there's not real reason to discern since everyone is right and no one is wrong. Thanks.
I am encouraged by your comments to make Christ known by being different. I was also encouraged in our Jeremiah class today when listening to the “between two worlds” message. All metanarratives, outside of God’s story, are providing a false view of what God clearly sees as humanity’s downfall. Within the prophetic voice we get a call to see things from God’s perspective, to recognize that He is trying to undo an “old world order” which humanity is falsely trying to ‘progress’ toward under the belief that it can exist without a need for Him. Our Christian worldview tells us this is impossible (it is therefore false). Instead, He wants us to embrace the “new world order” the reality which recognizes our need of Him for every aspect of life (truth). This includes direction and decision making (Is.65:13-16). For in order to achieve a reality we can only imagine, or dream of (Is.65:17-25), we must choose His way as the only way possible (this is the truth He presents us). Our difficulty is submitting to His yoke and trusting Him to be able to achieve the ideal through the current standard (Is.65:1-12). It appears false to us, but only because we know how false and resistant we are inside. We can’t believe He would love and choose humanity for such task (false – He has). One of my favourite quotes is from G.K. Chesterton "Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried." If we’re willing to try things His way and see His reality – maybe our collective dreams can become the New Reality where all our hopes become realized. Such an upside down, wishy washy message might just “fly” in a Post Modern society. It might just present them a message they have to ponder and discern. Maybe (as has always been the case), we just have to do it, live the message (good news) as if it is the reality already (which it is).
I think the most significant thing that I learned about postmodernism is that I am highly influenced by postmodernism. I have grown up in an untrusting world. I have a hard time believing metanarratives and I believe that if I had not have grown up in the church then I wouldn't have become a member because my untrusting nature runs so deeply. I've grown up fairly tolerant of people and their behavior whether good or bad and that makes sharing the gospel hard, because I falsely believe that other people are just as indifferent as I would have been. It is good for me to recognize postmodernism so that I can see more clearly my behavior and others that are different from mine so that I can share the gospel more effectively.
I agree Telah with your statement, “It is good for me to recognize postmodernism so that I can see more clearly my behavior….” As I read and study about postmodernism, I also have this evaluation of my views and checking of my heart as well. Because if I am not be watchful and careful, these postmodernism attitudes and philosophies might rub into me or might have already crept into my heart without me knowing. We live “in the world [a postmodern one] but we are not of the world” (John 15:19).
Perhaps the way forward with postmodern people who mistrust metanarratives is to live exemplary and consistent Christian lives before them demonstrating that the story we live out makes sense and seeks the good of the community. They may want to make this story their "truth." Thanks.
Yeah, I think that a lot people are really open to whatever people want to believe, but at the same time either won't take the time to listen or don't care enough. I think that everyone is open with people believing what they want to believe because it doesn't effect them, so why should they care? The gospel has a reason for people to care. If something doesn't effect them personally, then usually no one will do anything about it. It is challenging when trying to share the gospel, but showing the need for the gospel and how it effects them personally could help ease the untrust to this metanarrative.
How do we get postmodern people to care about the gospel is a real challenge to us Christians. Maybe these words by Theodore Roosevelt can help enlighten us on this concern: “People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.” Perhaps our action will indeed speaks louder than our words. Postmodern people was said to be possibly be reached in the context of a relationship. By finding commonality with them rather than contradictions will make us likely be given a chance to be heard about what we believe in. Perhaps by giving a sound bite or a short clip of speech rather than long winding one will work. Each postmodern person is different. What will work with one will not work with another. Let us continue to show them our faith by our deeds. Perhaps they will listen and that our deeds will give them reasons to care about the gospel.
The most significant thing I have learned about postmodernism is about its worldview and its chief characteristics. Having known and being familiar with postmodern thought is an advantage in outreach because I will be able to identify persons with postmodern view. Having known this will help me to know the best way to connect with them. Before I did not know that persons with postmodernism worldview are irrational, non-linear and subjective. They have no universal truth and don’t believe in absolutes. Post modern people have multiple alienations and ignorant of basic Christianity. They are untrusting and are conscious of doubt more than guilt. They usually have negative image of the church. It pays that I was made aware about these because my upright response or reaction is critical in building up relationship with one who has postmodernism point of view.
Reaching postmodern people with the gospel is a big challenge but the world of Paul's day was equally diverse and it shared many of the same characteristics as our world today. Even in that similar climate many accepted the gospel. There are people who are searching and who will listen. Thanks.
The most important thing I learned was the blasé nature with which truth is treated. I think this is important for two reasons. We need to try to establish a basis for its absoluteness, but do so in a manner that doesn’t destroy truth’s ‘reputation’ any further.
ReplyDeleteTruth is essential to establish faith/trust that God has a steadfast (unwavering) love for humanity. Do we demonstrate steadfast faithfulness in that claim back toward God? Show faith in His claims (Heb.11:1-3)? Another claim He has made is that He has begun leading justice to victory through Jesus (Mt.12:20) and that the nations can place their hope in what He has begun. Do we demonstrate that? Sometimes our attitude (lives) toward truth, and our exclusive claim on it, sees us use truth in unhelpful ways; portraying it subjectively). We sometimes use bully-boy, uncaring, he who shouts loudest wins tactics to get our message across. These tactics do not portray the absolute truth claims we profess and were not the methods of our master (Mt.12:19). Truth is the weapon, sharper than any double-edged sword (Heb.4:12) it does not require the strength of our arm or persona for its desired effect; contrarily it just requires the careful, precise, gentle hand of the surgeon to cut away the impediments of an uncircumcised heart. If wielded with strength, like the Pharisees did, it produces the wrong kind of justice (Mt.12:7). We know that Jesus has the power to change the world (2 Cor.10:1) and demolish the strongholds of the world; we should conduct our business the same way he does (2 Cor.10:2-3). For in ‘weakness’ (dependence) is our real strength (Mt.12:21). Hope is our truth, and to the world it appears subjective. It cannot be to us, so we must not make it appear so by resorting to tactics which demonstrate our lack of trust in His tactics/truth claims (for that demonstrates we also profess truth as subjective – necessary only when it suits us).
Thanks for a thoughtful response to this question. When reading your response, Isa.42:1-4 came to mind: "he will not cry or lift up his voice or make it heard in the street; a bruised reed he will not break, and a dimly burning wick he will not quench..." Jesus' tactics were to out-shout his detractors nor did her resort to bullying. He spoke truth and was gentle and caring toward others (bruised people). Thanks.
DeleteThe most significant thing I've learned was that, in postmodernism everything is subjective and relative. There is no such thing as absolute truth. It is true for me but not for others. As I understood it, there is integration of faith and reason in postmodernism –that is they are not mutually exclusive, but they seek to explain the same answer in different ways.
ReplyDeletePostmodernism is more open to spirituality and supernatural realities. Here, there is the difficulty of objectivity –we read, discuss and see things from the perspective of our own background and understanding.
I found what you said about there being an integration of faith and reason in Postmodernism interesting Dea. And the more I think about it, the more I wonder whether that is the case. I find one of the fascinating, yet equally disturbing facets of western culture, to be ‘open-mindedness.’ I think it is encouraging that many say they are, but when talking to people proclaiming the status, more often than not, I find it to be an excuse to not take the time to work through the reasoning behind whatever they do have faith in. Therefore, rather, they appear to have a lack of reasoning in faith than a blend). What I find helpful about their claims of ‘open-mindedness’ is, that they become advantageous for us to be able to stay in conversation with them (particularly if we get accused of being closed-minded). So long as we maintain a respectful and loving attitude, we have amazing opportunities to share the reason for the hope we have under Jesus’ Lordship (1 Pt. 3:15-16), which becomes quite easy to do by way of reason. Other than to make themselves feel better, most non-believing postmoderns appear to lack a reason for anything they do. Reason gives us, and can give them hope and purpose. We know this can only be in Christ, they don’t, yet.
DeleteThe upside of "everything is relative" is that people will give you permission to speak and to share "your truth." At least God is put back on the table and the claims of Christianity are valued (maybe not as a metanarrative) but valued nonetheless. And when you speak a good word for Jesus, some will lesson and become followers. Thanks.
DeleteA lot of times, I am bothered at the thought of how close-minded people can be (and this is also because of my selfish presumption and ignorance). But I am comforted by John 8:32 when Jesus spoke to the Jews, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." God's truth sets people free. And it transcends time. Our responsibility is to ditch our personal fear, whether of rejection or being different, and to continue communicating the truth in the ways we are best equipped with. We never know who is ready to receive the Gospel. :)
DeleteIt is really hard to argue with someone who doesn't believe there is absolute truth because if they stand by that than anything you say about the truths they believe they will counter with the "its true for you but not for me". It poses some difficulty, but also because people are open then it makes things a bit easier. The beautiful thing is God can work through anyone and whether or not the gospel doesn't hit them immediately because of their postmodern view.
Deletethe postmodernism claims to be neutral , unbiased or rational; and "raises important questions regarding genuine human limitations or bias and the problematic position that one should only believe what is absolutely certain." These views are good for Christians and could help us to strength our faith with God. We need to be humble and unbiased. As a human, we all have bias, which it's against Jesus' teaching. We need to self-control, and try to be humble in everything.
ReplyDeleteAs much as we would like, we can't be unbiased but we can, as you say, be humble in everything. We speak what we believe to be true in a spirit of humility. Thanks.
DeleteTo be honest, my understanding of postmodernism is as vague as postmodernism itself. But I think postmodernism is the time when everyone gets a chance to say or think whatever they want. Postmodernism rose out of the ash of the reasoning age - of totalitarianism, Nazism, or Marxism. Evidently, these metanarratives failed. And now people are making sure that we do not repeat the history again by bringing people to the same level. Every person gets the same chance. Every religion can speak out. But what saddens me is that no one is willing to listen. Postmodernism is almost like "each to their own" kinda idea. We spit words into the middle of the room with everyone mingling around. But no one takes it. No one ponders on it.
ReplyDeleteIt poses a challenge because the Gospel is also a metanarrative. It is the story that needs to be told. But I have been thinking about how to tell this story in the most effective way. One thing I have made peace with, as Peter said earlier, we cannot just keep shouting Gospel into people's ears. We must be different. It seems that actions speak louder than words these days. So as a way of telling the story or the plan of salvation, we have to live out our faith in the same way Jesus did - to get real with the nitty-gritty of life. To look for ways to be involved with people. To be quick to see and respond to their needs. At the same time, to make Christ known through our commitment and faithfulness to Him.
Good points, Minkster. I think you are right in saying that in our postmodern world all we do is "spit words into the middle of the room" but no one ponders on it. I suppose this is one of the challenges of postmodernism: to get others to really and deeply listen to us. "Everyone is right" attitude makes us all more shallow and lazy in our thinking. I suppose "discernment" is a lost value in today's postmodern world because there's not real reason to discern since everyone is right and no one is wrong. Thanks.
DeleteI am encouraged by your comments to make Christ known by being different. I was also encouraged in our Jeremiah class today when listening to the “between two worlds” message. All metanarratives, outside of God’s story, are providing a false view of what God clearly sees as humanity’s downfall. Within the prophetic voice we get a call to see things from God’s perspective, to recognize that He is trying to undo an “old world order” which humanity is falsely trying to ‘progress’ toward under the belief that it can exist without a need for Him. Our Christian worldview tells us this is impossible (it is therefore false). Instead, He wants us to embrace the “new world order” the reality which recognizes our need of Him for every aspect of life (truth). This includes direction and decision making (Is.65:13-16). For in order to achieve a reality we can only imagine, or dream of (Is.65:17-25), we must choose His way as the only way possible (this is the truth He presents us). Our difficulty is submitting to His yoke and trusting Him to be able to achieve the ideal through the current standard (Is.65:1-12). It appears false to us, but only because we know how false and resistant we are inside. We can’t believe He would love and choose humanity for such task (false – He has). One of my favourite quotes is from G.K. Chesterton "Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried." If we’re willing to try things His way and see His reality – maybe our collective dreams can become the New Reality where all our hopes become realized. Such an upside down, wishy washy message might just “fly” in a Post Modern society. It might just present them a message they have to ponder and discern. Maybe (as has always been the case), we just have to do it, live the message (good news) as if it is the reality already (which it is).
DeleteI think the most significant thing that I learned about postmodernism is that I am highly influenced by postmodernism. I have grown up in an untrusting world. I have a hard time believing metanarratives and I believe that if I had not have grown up in the church then I wouldn't have become a member because my untrusting nature runs so deeply. I've grown up fairly tolerant of people and their behavior whether good or bad and that makes sharing the gospel hard, because I falsely believe that other people are just as indifferent as I would have been. It is good for me to recognize postmodernism so that I can see more clearly my behavior and others that are different from mine so that I can share the gospel more effectively.
ReplyDeleteI agree Telah with your statement, “It is good for me to recognize postmodernism so that I can see more clearly my behavior….” As I read and study about postmodernism, I also have this evaluation of my views and checking of my heart as well. Because if I am not be watchful and careful, these postmodernism attitudes and philosophies might rub into me or might have already crept into my heart without me knowing. We live “in the world [a postmodern one] but we are not of the world” (John 15:19).
DeletePerhaps the way forward with postmodern people who mistrust metanarratives is to live exemplary and consistent Christian lives before them demonstrating that the story we live out makes sense and seeks the good of the community. They may want to make this story their "truth." Thanks.
DeleteYeah, I think that a lot people are really open to whatever people want to believe, but at the same time either won't take the time to listen or don't care enough. I think that everyone is open with people believing what they want to believe because it doesn't effect them, so why should they care? The gospel has a reason for people to care. If something doesn't effect them personally, then usually no one will do anything about it. It is challenging when trying to share the gospel, but showing the need for the gospel and how it effects them personally could help ease the untrust to this metanarrative.
ReplyDeleteHow do we get postmodern people to care about the gospel is a real challenge to us Christians. Maybe these words by Theodore Roosevelt can help enlighten us on this concern: “People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.” Perhaps our action will indeed speaks louder than our words. Postmodern people was said to be possibly be reached in the context of a relationship. By finding commonality with them rather than contradictions will make us likely be given a chance to be heard about what we believe in. Perhaps by giving a sound bite or a short clip of speech rather than long winding one will work. Each postmodern person is different. What will work with one will not work with another. Let us continue to show them our faith by our deeds. Perhaps they will listen and that our deeds will give them reasons to care about the gospel.
DeleteThe most significant thing I have learned about postmodernism is about its worldview and its chief characteristics. Having known and being familiar with postmodern thought is an advantage in outreach because I will be able to identify persons with postmodern view. Having known this will help me to know the best way to connect with them. Before I did not know that persons with postmodernism worldview are irrational, non-linear and subjective. They have no universal truth and don’t believe in absolutes. Post modern people have multiple alienations and ignorant of basic Christianity. They are untrusting and are conscious of doubt more than guilt. They usually have negative image of the church. It pays that I was made aware about these because my upright response or reaction is critical in building up relationship with one who has postmodernism point of view.
ReplyDeleteReaching postmodern people with the gospel is a big challenge but the world of Paul's day was equally diverse and it shared many of the same characteristics as our world today. Even in that similar climate many accepted the gospel. There are people who are searching and who will listen. Thanks.
Delete